Curse

[email protected] · Aug 21, 2005, 12:18 PM // 12:18

I understand from guildwar's support, that the developers sometimes scan these forums for ideas, so I am posting some recommendations for the programmer team of Guildwars for their future updates, expansions or sequels to the GuildWars world (and also for other readers so that they can post their ideas on these recommendations). Me and several of my friends think this is an awesome game (a triumph in programming) but we have also played Guildwar's competitors as well and there are few things that could be really helpful on the next update/expansion/sequel of guildwars. Here is our recommendations we have put together.

1. More skill shortcuts (not just 8). Since the skills are based of the 1-8 keys, I recommend the developers should allow one or two more skills to be armed during missions using the xtra # keys available (There are two more # keys not being utilized, 9 & 0). It's a huge downer to have so many skills but with very limited access to them during game play. For example, in neverwinter nights you can arm all f1-f12 keys and you can hit a shift button bring up completely different set of memorized spells/skills for f1-f12 and thats on top of 3rd set of 12 shortcut spell/ability keys (thats 36 programmable slots for powers/spells). I’m not saying you need that many but at least one or two more would be really great for this particular game.

2. Allow skills changes in the middle of missions by using rest periods. This would be similar to setting up camp so you would not be able to do this in the middle of battle or when enemies are xtremely close by or when you in a timed mission (This is also an idea from similar games). This would give character more flexibility with skills in mid mission. There have been quite a few times we have gotten into mid mission and found that we did not properly prepare for a new type of enemy (no problem if you can rest and change your skills). It’s not unrealistic to camp just outside of enemy lines and prepare properly for the attack after observing the enemy (This is very logical).

3. Some of the character/enemy special abilities, spells, etc, when used need a little more eye candy graphics during battle. For instance, if I am fighting a white dragon, it would really neat to see an actually ice breath weapon come out of dragons mouth and hit the party in cone shaped arch (not just physical attack/movements with some glowing skin?). Or if I used a fireball for an elementatlist for example, I actually see fireball fly out from the caster’s location and explode into a radius effect around the targeted area engulfing the enemy in fire. There are quite a few character/enemy attacks that I expect to see more visuals during battle but quite often I just see damage numbers popping up telling me the enemy took damage. This isn’t a huge problem- the games graphics make up for this in other areas (in fact there are some really awesome graphics in the game- especially for characters and scenery), however; it would be a very nice additive for the battle portion of the game to have a tad bit more visual flash. When you get a new spelllike skill, you get excited and use it, then visually nothing much happens but damage numbers (It kinda puts damper on the games spirit a tad bit). If you look at other RPG games, they invest quite a bit more in attack power/spell visuals in battle making all that work getting the new powers worth it.

We really appreciate the work the programmers have put into this game already. We just want to help with the future development of one of the best RPG games on the market….

Jarrod…

Starsky-sama · Aug 21, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

/wrong forum section.

/constructive non-the-less.

/cheers.

Swarnt Brightstar · Aug 21, 2005, 12:23 PM // 12:23

1) Why not the # keys 1-9+0?

2) Agreed, I forget sometimes to add a skill, very annoying

3) Agreed, I used fireball, bt no ball!

wolfy3455 · Aug 21, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

1. Bad suggestion. There are some balance problems as is but once NR gets nerfed this would lead to mesmers being invincible. Right now they can shut down any one thing or be energy denial for everyone. With your suggestion they could do all of that.

2. Wohoo! Lets scout our opponents in g v g so we can change our build to directly counter theirs. We'll have matches of people refusing to attack eachother because no one wants the other team to be able to change around.

3. This is a decent suggestion, but look at the system requirement. Right now it doesn't take much of a gfx card to run GW.

Racthoh · Aug 21, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

2. Wohoo! Lets scout our opponents in g v g so we can change our build to directly counter theirs. We'll have matches of people refusing to attack eachother because no one wants the other team to be able to change around.

He said mission.

Not sure what the complaint is about skill shortcut. You can customize it to fit your needs. Note that H and C both do the same thing, and not all keys do something. Just need to tweak it to your preference.

It would be nice to change skills. I know in the FoW, it's annoying when I can't make a well out of any skeletons (and they would really help at times). If they did that, however, I feel it only fair that they remove the use of attribute points unless you're in town. 24 attribute points to play with, 5k exp at least from missions... would make it far too easy.

Oh how some graphical improvements would be nice. Shouts actually showing the radius of effect would be great. How about an actual phoenix as well?

Soup4Brains · Aug 21, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Adding some visual effects would be nice, but first I think they'd need to remove the unecessary effects that they already have. You know, the ones that start filling your whole screen and you can't find your mouse cursor mid-battle?

Paine · Aug 21, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

1. Bad idea. Maybe for a later expansion.
2. Never, never and never! You simply suck or doesn't know how to play this game. You just have to find a way to make your way things.
3. Maybe...

corax5 · Aug 21, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

If you could change you skills in the middle of something, that would makes things allot easier, which is bad. The idea of only having 8 set skills to bring into areas is that you have to choose something that is either good for all situation, or good for your specific one, if you could just change your skills in the middle of an area then you would always have what you needed.

emil knight · Aug 21, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

1. More skill shortcuts (not just 10). Since the skills are based of the F1-F10 keys, at a minimum you really should allow 12 skills to be armed during missions using all "F" keys (F1-F12). It's a huge downer to have so many skills but with very limited access to them during game play. For example, in neverwinter nights you can arm all f1-f12 keys and you can hit a shift button bring up completely different set of memorized spells/skills for f1-f12 (thats 24 programmed slots for powers/spells). I’m not saying you need that many but at least a few more would be really great!

INCORRECT! Check again, none of the skills are linked to the F keys. Those are for switch out weapon sets or checking your inventory, options, or even logging out. F10 is the only one that is linked to nothing. Do you even play this game, or are you possibly thinking of another game?

Best you could do here is add 2 more skills with the 9 and 0 keys, and besides that, have 24 skills would be insanely overpowering in THIS game. It migt work for others, but not here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

2. Allow skills changes in the middle of missions by using rest periods. This would be similar to setting up camp so you would not be able to do this in the middle of battle or when enemies are xtremely close by or when you in a timed mission (This is also an idea from similar games). This would give character more flexibility with skills in mid mission. There have been quite a few times we have gotten into mid mission and found that we did not properly prepare for a new type of enemy (no problem if you can rest and change your skills). It’s not unrealistic to camp just outside of enemy lines and prepare properly for the attack after observing the enemy (This is very logical).

It IS unrealistic to camp inside a mission and swap out your skills though. You can't tell me that you can't find 8 decent skills for your character to get you through an entire mission. This is an attempt to design the game around the way YOU play, without regarding how the game is DESIGNED.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

3. Some of the character/enemy special abilities, spells, etc, when used need a little more eye candy graphics during battle. For instance, if I am fighting a white dragon, it would really neat to see an actually ice breath weapon come out of dragons mouth and hit the party in cone shaped arch (not just physical attack/movements with some glowing skin?). Or if I used a fireball for an elementatlist for example, I actually see fireball fly out from the caster’s location and explode into a radius effect around the targeted area engulfing the enemy in fire. There are quite a few character/enemy attacks that I expect to see more visuals during battle but quite often I just see damage numbers popping up telling me the enemy took damage. This isn’t a huge problem- the games graphics make up for this in other areas (in fact there are some really awesome graphics in the game- especially for characters and scenery), however; it would be a very nice additive for the battle portion of the game to have a tad bit more visual flash. When you get a new spelllike skill, you get excited and use it, then visually nothing much happens but damage numbers (It kinda puts damper on the games spirit a tad bit). If you look at other RPG games, they invest quite a bit more in attack power/spell visuals in battle making all that work getting the new powers worth it.

We really appreciate the work the programmers have put into this game already. We just want to help with the future development of one of the best RPG games on the market….

Jarrod…

Seeing as this is a free game to play (after initial purchase) and seeing how the number of servers is probably limited, it would be unwise to load the game down with incredible graphical changes as you propose. The more you have to load in, the more it will lag down your game. Incredible graphics might be pretty, but unless you had a sweet machine to run it on, you'd be left in the dust.

I have to /disagree with all of these suggestions.

[email protected] · Aug 22, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

In response to comments against resting and changing skills above.......
I think that if the skills are going to be limited to 8 (I suggested to add on or two more), there should be at least some ability to change skills in mid mission (Which will require rest-similar to how a wizard would rest to recoup spells in standard Dungeons & Dragon terms for example, etc). The reason is simple why I still say this- You fight you way up to something that takes 3 hours of gameplay and then look over the horizon and find most everthing now is mostly immune to what you've been using (or you find you really need something you just didn't place in a skill slot and it has now been killing you and the guys working with you not to have it in the last few fights). In the senario above this is new territory which is hard to prepare for. Do you want die miserably and play all 3 hours of gameplay again to be prepared next time which waste everyones time including yours-- NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! I say fight and clean out an area into a quite covey whole and camp. Get that resurrect power you need equipped, prepare the elemental spells this enemy isn't immune to, etc. And when I say you need to clean out an area to rest, you really need to do it, or the rest period will be interrupted by nearby enemies (I didn't say this was going to be easy thing to get rest and allow you to change the skills, it would be a challenge like everything else in the game).-- But at least you have an option that will allow you to change skills in mid mission without restarting and without wasting time. I myself can only play the game so often, and when I play, I like making the most of it without rehashing unneccesarily and also be able to use those odd ball skills that come in handy only once in while (Time does not grow on trees for me personally I like making the most of it). Some of the skills really are specific and since monsters can change in mid mission it really makes since to give you the opportunity to change your skills as well. Being able to change skills will most likey only give you a "small advantage" in most cases but it may be enough to survive and complete the mission. I really don't think that is a game spoiler, more of game enhancer in my opinion.

P.S. During the proprosed rest periods, you can change kill point assigments as well (I agree with that)....

P.S. For those who replied above without using demeaning commentary (Like "you suck" for example) thank you for being decent human beings (not matter if you agree with me or not)....

Jarrod...

[email protected] · Aug 22, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Oops, Sorry about the keys I designated earlier for skill slots, you are correct-- it is the 1-8 numbers (I mistakenly said the F keys). Yes I think the 9 and/or 0 key should be added allowing one or two more skills to be equipped. I went thru all the postings an corrected my mis references to avoid futher confusion. Thanks....

On the graphics, actually I have seen some interesting graphics on skills that don't screw up the game play which I don't have a problem with. What I am saying is that if some of these spells can have a little flash, so can others..

KelvinC · Aug 22, 2005, 08:01 AM // 08:01

2 is ok, even in PvP
there is a long lists of reason behine this.. too lazy to post

the main argument is to counteract paper-rock-sessior effect. chance is winning should not only be pre-determined before the mission.

Emerald Mist · Aug 22, 2005, 09:00 AM // 09:00

win gvg often so u can flame those game developers face to face (one of my dreams)

Rayea · Aug 22, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

i like the idea of a couple more skill slots, at least one for an signet of capture and its caped skill and another for a normal signet....even if they were *JUST* for those two and/or the ranger skill charm pet and comfort animal, it would give you rom to work more.

i find that i have to leave pets behind or signets because i need usefull skills with me, and i bet a lot of rangers find the same too. letting us have 2 extra slots would free up 2 more usefull skills

oh, and i would say, lets use the numeric pad for a stash of quick-slots for /emote comands or talk comands....
yeah, i know, the seller/buyer market will just customise the to spamm us, but if it has WTS/WTB/WTT in it, it could auto-defalt to the comerce chat...
and yeah, i also know that the emote spammers will set up /dance and the rest to there, but.....i can turn off the lines of emote talk and still *see* the emotes, i leave it turned off as standard, but a short cut to your most used emotes is a definate if you wana try RolePlaying while in a mission or at a guild hall.

with a short cut to /bow and/laugh and other not funny but usefull emote commands, i can at least pretend to roleplay a little

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

In response to comments against resting and changing skills above.......
I think that if the skills are going to be limited to 10 (I suggested 12), there should be at least some ability to change skills in mid mission (Which will require rest-similar to how a wizard would rest to recoup spells in standard Dungeons & Dragon terms for example, etc). The reason is simple why I still say this- You fight you way up to something that takes 3 hours of gameplay and then look over the horizon and find most everthing now is mostly immune to what you've been using (or you find you really need something you just didn't place in a skill slot and it has now been killing you and the guys working with you not to have it in the last few fights). In the senario above this is new territory which is hard to prepare for.

You won't see serious resistances or enemy skils that seriously restrict your skillbar until the southern shiverpeak missions. By that time, however, you should have a party size of 8. If not one of your 8 party members brought along a set of skills to deal with a certain circumstance, then you most definitely deserved to lose for not setting up a balanced party. Eight skill slots is more than enough for any situation. This is a team game. No single player should have the versatility to handle everything. Between your entire team, you'd have 4x8=32 skills in ascalon, 6x8=48 skills through the desert, and 8x8=64 skills for the rest of the game. All those skill slots are more than enough to deal with EVERY and ANY situation. All it takes is a bit of planning when building your party. Or, if you're too lazy to piece together a decent party, just grab henchmen.

Quote:

Get that resurrect power you need equipped, prepare the elemental spells this enemy isn't immune to, etc.

No. You should bring the ressurect power or designate someone on your team to be the ressurector before entering the mission if you plan on dying. No single enemy is immune to any particular element. They might be resistant, but NEVER immune. If your firestorms are doing half damage agains the fire giants, then just have your warriors go up and whack them or pin then down while the ranger on your team slams down a winter. Don't go into a mission with one element that the enemy will probably be resistant to. (Hmm... Ring of *FIRE*... These guys walk around on lava and burning brimstone all day long... I wonder what element they're resistant to...)

Quote:

And when I say you need to clean out an area to rest, you really need to do it, or the rest period will be interrupted by nearby enemies (I didn't say this was going to be easy thing to get rest and allow you to change the skills, it would be a challenge like everything else in the game).-- But at least you have an option that will allow you to change skills in mid mission without restarting and without wasting time.

You don't have to restart. You won't NEED to restart. Just take that extra five minutes to build up a decent and balanced party. If you STILL die with a balanced party, then a different skill bar probably wouldn't have saved you anyway.

Quote:

I myself can only play the game so often, and when I play, I like making the most of it without rehashing unneccesarily and also be able to use those odd ball skills that come in handy only once in while (Time does not grow on trees for me personally I like making the most of it). Some of the skills really are specific and since monsters can change in mid mission it really makes since to give you the opportunity to change your skills as well. Being able to change skills will most likey only give you a "small advantage" in most cases but it may be enough to survive and complete the mission. I really don't think that is a game spoiler, more of game enhancer in my opinion.

Plan everything ahead of time. Take five minutes before entering the game to get a good and balanced party together before you go.

It sounds like you think this game is like Neverwinter Nights, when you can prepare yourself before every battle. This notion is very much wrong. Guild Wars is a team game. Whatever weaknesses or inflexibilities your character has is not offset by the ability to prepare before every battle, but by the strength of your fellow teammates. So in response to your idea of "resting" or being allowed to carry more skill slots, such suggestions would destroy the mission statement of the game and allow one character to shine in every situation.

Calimar · Aug 22, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Actually I agree with mithie that more skill slots or - even worse - ability to change skills in instanced areas is bad. It encourages bad planning, it encourages lazy strategical thinking, and god knows we're all fed up with lazy players.

The whole game system is designed to be played with 8 skills at a time. Since everything is balanced around this, expanding this limit would make some skills that require support from other skills much much more usable; 3 and 4 skills combo would be easier to implement (since you have still 6-7 other skills for other situations); classes that heavily use one-only skills (like ranger's preps, for instance) will be less useful - in short, the whole system would have to be rebalanced. This, just to allow people to be lazier in their strategical planning.

No, I don't agree with more slots. I'd rather not have "skill changing during missions", either - can you picture groups wanting to rest every 2 minutes to reassign skills? It would take years to complete a mission.

Your third suggestion is good, and I'm quite sure that the devs will consider it... if possible. They keep improving the icons and small things anyway, so they might as well change some visual effects. This game is absolutely gorgeous as it is, but who would say we wouldn't like more drama in the effects?

Oh and while we're at it... what about different voices or different professions in the FMV? As it is, we've got one for female characters and one for male... I'd like to hear different voices

Just a cosmetic idea.

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

Your third suggestion is good, and I'm quite sure that the devs will consider it... if possible. They keep improving the icons and small things anyway, so they might as well change some visual effects. This game is absolutely gorgeous as it is, but who would say we wouldn't like more drama in the effects?

Oh and while we're at it... what about different voices or different professions in the FMV? As it is, we've got one for female characters and one for male... I'd like to hear different voices

Just a cosmetic idea.

Or appropriate music while the cutscenes are playing. The scepter or Orr got stolen? OH NOES! >Cue dramatic and mysterious organ music.

Someone good died? OH NOES! >Cue tear jerking violin solo.

[email protected] · Aug 22, 2005, 12:58 PM // 12:58

To Mithies response above..
I Agree a little that the flow of the game with mulitple players would be more fluid probably without rest periods (also, you would have a reliance on diversity of the party). However, I don't totally agree that one player would shine beyond the rest per say due to multiple classes involved. To be honest, If I had to pick the most profound argument from what I posted originally between "rest periods" and xtra skills, it would probably be to add 2 more skill slots (slightly less headache to others from what I am reading in the replies and you get the xtra verstility anyway). This would allow you to be a little more diversified and equip at least one-two odd ball skills rarely used as a backup or other things. Most of my skill slots are taken up by attack/defense powers as it probably is for most people I believe. Like the guy stated above you, you can use the slots for signet rings only if you like (like the stealing ring power that does nothing but steal powers from boses). That way it really isn't giving the big advtange, it just keep from rehashing a battle becuase you didn't have it equipped (because you're to afraid not to equip something you really needed to keep you ALIVE! as opposed to the odd ball skill or ring). If we did the xtra two skill slots at least, I could probably let the "rest in the middle of mission" argument go.

Jarrod

Bord · Aug 22, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I subscribe to the idea that you should be able to change your skills during a mission. You have very soon a hole set of skills, but you can only equip when you are in a town. As if your character is a combat machine which you have to equip proper, for the right mission. But my character is a skilled virtual person in a fantasy world, not a combat-machine. A skill is a talent, a capacity, you have earned it somehow, and you have it all the time. I don't have to go back to my house to get my skill to swimm, when I go out swimming on a hot day.
Okay, game designers have decided to make things this way. Well, you can take a awesom load of weapons, armour and whatsoever with you, quick change in battle, and run and fight with it. Why can it with stuff and not with skills?
The capture-signet is a good example. Normally I do not equip it. You are not sure you can use it, and it contributes not to the fighting power of the team. When I see a boss, I go back later with a henchmen-team. Then the boss isn't there. That is sort of grinding. Let us capture the skills, when we make a kill. Or put npc's in town who give you information about bosses. Instead of having to read forums and walkthru's.
If you can change skills in mission, you don't need more skill-slots.
I add some personal remarks. I only refer to PVE, that is the game I play. I do not often change skills. I try to make things work for any occasion. When it comes to teamwork, everybody should have his/her task and speciality; this guy takes care of this, that one of that etc. That is the way things should work, I suppose.

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

To Mithies response above..
However, I don't totally agree that one player would shine beyond the rest per say due to multiple classes involved. To be honest, If I had to pick the most profound argument from what I posted orginally beyond others, it would probably be add 2 more skill slots (less headache to others I think from what I am reading and you get the xtra verstility anyway). This would allow you to be a little more diversified and equip at least one-two odd ball skills rarely used as a backup or other things.

This is where I disagree with you. There are no "oddball skills" in GW. There are only skills which complement other skills on your skillbar. For example, the mesmer hex "Fragility" might seem like an oddball skill. Does damage only when they're conditioned? Hmm... Sounds kinda useless, right? Well, what if I put Fragility on my skill bar plus 4 or 5 other skills that DO cause condition, many of those would be considered "oddball skills" too? Slap in a res signet and I'm good to go with my build.

In summation: if a skill seems like an oddball skill, just surround it with a combination of skills that would make the oddball skill useful.

Quote:

Most of my skill slots are taken up by attack/defense powers for most people I believe. Like the guy stated above you, you can use the slots for signet rings only if you like (like the stealing ring power that does nothing but steal powers from boses).

The signet of capture offers you the power of potentially having TWO elite powers on your power bar AT THE SAME TIME!!! Well worth the skill slot, I think.

You're loading your skill bar with attack and defense skills? That's where you're going wrong. There are many roles in GW. Those roles include damager, interruptor, anti-caster, damage prevention, damage reduction, buff, hex, tanking (in PvE only), health-to-energy conversion, energy-to-health conversion, spiking, sustained dps, etc, etc. The game is setup such that you can only relegate yourself to ONE of these roles. If you're having both attack and defense skills on your skillbar, then you're not playing out your role to the maximum. Find the role your character is good at then load him/her up with the skills which support that role to its fullest. That's Guild Wars. If you're a guy whose role is to deal out damage, let the guy on your team whose role is damage prevention or damage recovery to keep yourself alive. That's his job.

Quote:

That way it really isn't giving the big advtange, it just keep from rehashing a battle becuase you didn't have it equipped (because you to afraid not to equip something you really needed to keep you ALIVE! as opposed to the odd ball skill or ring). If we did the xtra two skill slots at least, I could probably let the "rest in the middle of mission" argument go.

Jarrod

The only thing you need to keep you and your team alive is your teammate specializing in doing just that.